Navigating chaos to a new professional identity, with Richard Ayling

Summary

In this conversation, John Niland and Richard Ayling explore the themes of chaos, disruption, and the importance of human connection when navigating life's challenges. Rich shares his personal experiences of upheaval during COVID-19, the impact on his self-worth, and the role of social media in his professional life. They discuss the significance of relational dynamics in both personal and professional contexts, emphasizing the need for authentic connections and the evolution of Rich's work life towards a more relational approach.

Takeaways

• What happens when life stops following the plan?
• Chaos can be a great descriptor of life changes.
• Isolation can lead to struggles with self-worth.
• Self-worth is not solely linked to external success.
• Human connection is essential for emotional well-being. We are not monks!
• Social media can amplify feelings of inadequacy.
• Understanding personal values is crucial during tough times.
• Relational dynamics are key to professional fulfillment.
• Building authentic relationships can lead to personal growth.
• Navigating chaos can lead to rediscovery of connection.

Chapters

00:00 Navigating Chaos and Disruption

10:51 The Importance of Human Connection

16:31 Evolving Work Life and Relational Dynamics

Keywords

chaos, disruption, self-worth, leadership development, human connection, social media, mental health, personal growth, emotional intelligence, team dynamics

Guest Contact Details:

Richard can be contacted via www.re-align.co and richard.ayling@re-align.co

For all contact details (including our Associates) and useful self-worth resources, see www.SelfWorthAcademy.com

Transcript

John (00:00)
What happens when life stops following the plan? My guest today is Richard Ayling. Rich works in the fields of team development and leadership development, but we'll get to that later. First of all, let's talk a little bit about chaos and disruption. Rich, what's your recent story of that?

Rich (00:21)
Hi, John, very nice to be here. Thank you for the invitation. I think the most recent event there was definitely me kind of leaving what had been a very relaxed kind of lifestyle, traveling, living in Indonesia. Around the time of COVID, a ⁓ little bit of chaos developed there, I think for a few people listening to this. And then heading back to Europe where I wanted to settle, closer to my family, but then finding the places that I'd...

uh, left and moved back to had changed very much. People had moved on. Uh, my professional identity was kind of in tatters having to redevelop, uh, what that was and where to start from. So there's a lot of, uh, fundamental pillars in life. And of course the financial one that's related to, uh, to the career kind of just really wobbling. Um, and so yeah, that's a, that's a, think chaos is a great descriptor for that.

John (01:17)
And how did all that affect you?

Rich (01:21)
Well, luckily you and I had met previously. And so we'd done some work or I'd done some work through your book, through working with you on self-worth. that, that really had an impact and I didn't collapse completely. And yet I did find myself isolated, struggling in moments, really wanting to give up. I'm definitely experiencing what we can call a depressive episodes. And yeah, it was a probably

darkest time and it was, I've had it for a long time and it went on for a while.

John (01:56)
And what were the knock on effects of that.

Rich (02:01)
Well, I think it really did sort of question my, my self belief, my self worth. There were, like I said, periods where if I don't know who I am and if I've still attributing to some extent, sense of value and worth from what I can offer to the world. I think most of us do to some extent, it's quite hard to get away from just because I think we're sort of herd animals and that's just built into us to some extent. if, if, if I couldn't sort of perform or deliver in those areas, then there was really a

deep questioning of self, leading to some kind of really dark thought patterns. And of course, friends being there as much as they could, it meant that in the battle to put myself out there back then still as a coach, primarily trying to get work through social media, thank God I didn't have to do that anymore. It made that really challenging trying to kind of show up with.

The confidence that I ⁓ knew that I had to have in order to get across got, guess, value to people. So, you know, my private persona was ⁓ not in a great place, very much collapsing inwardly, despite ⁓ the friends that I had around the world I could touch base with. But also my kind of public persona ⁓ wasn't showing up very well or very often. So yeah, that meant very little work coming in.

⁓ if you have very little money coming in and yeah, think most people will, some people can probably relate to, to how that feels. when there's really no sense of, how to influence what's coming next. think that was, that's a, that's that's a tough place to be.

John (03:45)
Well, we've come to the what comes next and the future of it in a minute. ⁓ You mentioned social media. Let's go back to that for a moment. What was your experience of social media during that time of losing the pillars as you described it, when the public persona was very much being called into question?

Rich (04:10)
Yeah, let's get to the fun stuff, hey. ⁓

John (04:13)
Sorry.

Rich (04:15)
having, never wanted to be on social media other than to be connected with friends. know, I, I, back in the day that had had value, ⁓ did my space, once upon a time, it, having a public persona on, on YouTube or Instagram was never something that interested me. So I had managed to get over that and have managed to be putting a few videos out there, I think starting around 2017 back when I don't think the coaching kind of world was, ⁓ you know,

There weren't a million of us back then as there are now. And so that was, that was an easier entry point. had a, as a former Wim Hof method instructor, I had a platform which was ⁓ useful. So I'd found success and a place of relative comfort there. But then, ⁓ I think as I'm to think of anything positive to say about social media. mean, it helped me get the word out back then, but I think algorithms change for various reasons and it then became, ⁓

very much a slog and that's regardless, I think of one's mental state. know, people who know what they're doing are also today sort of lamenting how they're having to keep up with the algorithm or keep up with whatever new trend is going on. And it just felt like a real sort of slog, a real hamster wheel kind of experience of, I'm putting things out there. It's not coming. It's not coming back. I'm not nothing. I'm nothing I'm saying is landing with anyone. Therefore ergo, my brain says,

or my emotional brain says, have no value. And so that's, it's a tough thing to sort of keep showing up on a daily basis. think it wasn't fun.

John (05:54)
it's like a double whammy, isn't it? Because you've already got, you know, not too much business coming in. And then on top of that, social media isn't producing or isn't landing as well. It's like, you know, double whammy at a time that we're often most vulnerable. You mentioned self-worth a couple of times and obviously the whole relationship with self and how that goes through the mill during these times.

⁓ What's your experience?

Rich (06:26)
think discovering your book just before, or just around the time of COVID, but before the impact of COVID hit me at least, having a very relaxed time of it, having time to read plenty of books, that was ⁓ fundamental in the impact of realizing that these two things aren't always linked, right? Even when we're going into scarcity mode, we start to think, ⁓ my worth has something to do with what I can offer here. then I think I was able to initially

Uh, if I was experiencing trouble, not equate it purely to the troubles I had externally, right? That kind of sense of self-esteem. I don't have to use the language of your book, if I don't, uh, you know, have the money, if I don't have the clients, I haven't achieved what I set out to today, then I have no worth and there's something off here. So I was able to separate those two things out and that was incredibly important. I found the longer it went on. I think anyone in my space would have had real struggles.

with any of the kind of tools at their disposal. Especially when, like I said, I'll be anti-depressants were kind of on the table briefly. That's kind of where it was. What I would say is that in of itself, self-worth for me at least was incredibly helpful, but I don't think we're sort of monks designed or able really to exist without relational kind of the relational piece as well. And so I can feel good about myself, but

Whether it's friendships, romantic relationships, working relationships, I think that external connection to the world is still important. And so that was kind of like a big learning for me. And I think you and I, after that, started at least to look in that direction around that kind of connection piece, right? I it was almost like ⁓ an extension of, I feel good about myself, but how does this work in relation to other people? that was a big learning around that time, a painful one, but useful. ⁓

John (08:23)
Always the best ones, aren't they? ⁓ You mentioned the phrase there, the longer it goes on, and this is the experience many people are having at the moment, which is the experience of things that started back with COVID or cost of living crisis or whatever it was back beginning of the decade, is now going on and on and on like a very long season of Lent. ⁓

And that in itself poses challenges as you've touched on, because it's one thing to have an initial aha between, ⁓ self-worth, self-esteem. Okay, they're not the same. All right, I can disconnect from external success a little bit and hunker down a bit in my ⁓ intrinsic shell for a time. But as you say, the longer this goes on, given that we are

social beings, given that we are relationship beings, then the contact with other people does get rather significant. ⁓ Can you say a bit more about that? Because I know that you're really into the topic of human connection at times like this.

Rich (09:38)
Yeah, human behavior and connection is kind of really what drives me. It's a curiosity to understand, you know, like why we behave the way that we do, how we can behave so differently. And yet all of our actions are essentially reduced to the same set of needs. But it's what our values really are kind of what defines how we go about meeting those needs. And so values are also pretty key. I think during that time, what kind of helped me, if you will, if I can sort of go there.

was to not lose touch of those values, not lose touch of kind of the boundaries and remember what's okay for me, remember what's not, what kind of work was okay, what I'm willing to do, what I'm not willing to do. And so I think that's definitely a self-worth piece. And of course it's relational. It's those moments where I can sort of stand up to someone and gently maybe push back or put myself out there.

Not in a way that is like on social media where I'm just kind of creating an avatar of myself, even I don't believe in and therefore why would anyone else, but actually authentically putting myself out there. And maybe that's just by not putting myself out there and it's just getting off social media, but by being authentic, but to who I am and what my values are. ⁓ I think that was, really, really helpful. And that was kind of at a point where I started to kind of get a sense of, I know who I am.

I haven't forgotten that and I know what I want. And I think once people are clear on this, this is kind of like a way out of the, ⁓ as long as we're taking effective action, it's a long, it's a way out of this kind of, ⁓ pit, guess that we were kind of, inferring that we can, or implying that we can find ourselves in. And that was when I met my, partner, you know, she was very like appreciative of the fact that I knew who I was and I knew what I wanted. And of course then.

We've got some mirror neurons firing. there's like, ⁓ you know, someone, ⁓ doesn't just fancy me. actually value who I am. And because I am being who I am, and I'm also not trying to, ⁓ be something that I'm not and play the dating game in, in, the wrong way. And I'll finish the rant off by saying that it was around that time that once I figured out, okay, this is how you meet someone authentically. then put myself out there briefly as a sort of a dating coach. Never foresaw that, but there is a healthy way of meeting people.

and can talk about dating if you're interested, John, but, like, think there is a healthy and unhealthy way of, ⁓ kind of how to go about that. And yeah, I think as soon as I'd met someone else, then I could start to sort of move up the ladder and get out of that place.

John (12:20)
And as I now know, your work life has also evolved sin
ce that time. What do you do today?

Rich (12:28)
I no longer purely work for myself, which is after, you know, what 20 years in the field as a freelancer, ⁓ it's been incredibly rewarding. As I said, and I'll kind of reiterate a repeat, in a different context, like coming out of that kind of COVID, ⁓ hole, if you will, the realization was, like, actually, I don't want to be on my own. Actually, like, I really do want to build this relational.

piece that's actually not just in being useful to others, ⁓ to build a sense of self-worth, but really because that's the kind of next stage of my, I guess, development, late as late in life as it was. And so I've now moved into a space where I kind of, yes, put out my own work, but I'm also working for a couple of training organizations. And so, ⁓ as an executive coach, ⁓ I work with like, ⁓ leadership, also love working in the field of high performing teams.

bringing in that sense of, ⁓ yes, emotional intelligence, but also critical factors moving forward. Like what does future fit really look like? We have to learn to be adaptable. We have to learn to communicate much more effectively. We have to be much clearer about the meaning of our work. And I'm really excited about these topics and I can separate them out in the mechanics of how... ⁓

a role, you know, functions or an organization functions is one thing and that's important, but the dynamics is what I'm really interested in. they're just as important as each other. can do both. But what I mean by that is like, how are we as a team? Like how are we connecting? How do we know each other ⁓ outside of work to what extent to really empathize and want to show up for each other. Better understand each other's struggles, how to give each other feedback, these kinds of things. So this really excites me. And I've been doing a lot of work for a lot of big.

organizations recently. I'm far too busy in fact, but it's a beautiful turnaround and I'm not complaining. It's really rewarding to be around people and to see the impact of some of these ideas in training.

John (14:34)
Well, glad you got through it, Rich. It strikes me as ⁓ you talk particularly at the end about the relational piece that that is both personally and professionally and now in the work that you're doing. That does look like the red thread that runs through all of this. Does it appear that way to you or something else?

Rich (14:56)
Absolutely, John. think that coming back to Europe during that time was a move I'd wanted, I had been planning to make anyway. ⁓ coming back to Europe to be closer to family. think it's a phase of my life, at least where I realized like I've gone out of, wouldn't say I've done the hero's journey. That sounds a bit pretentious, but I've definitely left where I'm from. I've definitely learned a lot of painful lessons and it's the kind of full circle that coming back to then offer what I've.

Learned and dare I say, specialized in to offer value to as many, not just individuals, like I had been previously coaching, but, ⁓ like I said, teams, organizations, ⁓ I'm learning a lot about kind of corporate areas that I weren't, I wasn't as familiar with. And that's kind of the learning for me to keep me on my toes, but the human side of things, this relational piece where, ⁓ not to repeat myself from earlier, but how we relate to each other and why, and creating a shared understanding can.

radically change, know, like romantic relationships, again, once ever a work in progress, but we're in a much better place than any of mine have been previously. And I'm very grateful for that. know, so it just goes on and on. So that for me, that relational piece is, ⁓ that's, that's definitely been key to a sense of fulfillment, belonging, but also learning and inspiration too.

John (16:16)
Fascinating. And by the way, we didn't plan that theme at the outset, did we? ⁓ I'm intrigued as you outline that ⁓ possibly one of the effects of these times of chaos and disruption will be a renewed emphasis on the relational piece, on how we connect with others, how we connect with family, how we connect with colleagues, how we connect romantically even. And wouldn't it be interesting?

that if one of the byproducts of the times of disruption that we live in ⁓ might well be a time of rediscovery of connection. And of course, we haven't even mentioned AI yet and how important that might ⁓ highlight the significance of human connection rather than just idea level connection. But hey, that's going to be a topic for another day.

Rich, thanks ever so much for joining me and I really appreciate the perspective you've brought to chaos in this episode.

Rich (17:21)
Thank you for having me.

John (17:22)
Anyone wishing to reach out to you? Where can they find you?

Rich (17:26)
⁓ currently Richard dot ailing at realign.co. I'll probably give you that in the show notes cause there's a couple of hyphens and weird spellings of names in there.

John (17:36)
We'll put that in the notes. Excellent. Thanks, Rich. Have a good day.

Rich (17:40)
You too.